once a god - now seeking for a more exciting live as human.
Published on June 30, 2008 By TheBigOne In Demigod

Random Heroes, Random Maps, Random Teams, Random Rules, Random everything.

You may ask "why?" now, here is the totally random answer : it's fun , see below.

 

We need an incentive to use Random Heroes , be it just that the opponent doesnt know what hero you have (like in Starcraft/Warcraft with the Races) or that you get a small bonus like a bit extra money as in Dota or even just special awards for playing random (which supcom failed to have).

Whats so cool about Random Heroes?

Random Heroes make for a more flexible and dynamic gameplay on the one side on the other side, people using random will whine alot less over pretended imbalances as they have a more unbiased point of view (won't stop them to complain about the real ones though - they will become more apparent even that way). 

Now the Problem is that humans are lazy per definition and usually will stick to what they know and have mastered but humans are also opportunists who will happily take every small, even meaningless advantages/rewards. (ofc the higher the advantage the more humans will take the advantage over their lazyness).

Whats so cool about Random Maps ?

Random Maps can have 2 meanings:

1) Randomly generated Maps, like in all those Age of *someword* games. While not that suited for competitive game it increases the replayability alot and forces the players to adapt alot more. While I am totally sure that Demigod won't have a random map generator, given the nature of Demigod Maps being flat, not using tiles and probably not that complex at all (aside from the artistical stuff) it should be fairly easy to write a random map generator (like Warmaker for Warcraft II) and maybe even integrate it into the game itself as mod.

2) meaning that instead of picking a certain map in the game lobby you have some filters (size, type, maybe even a list) you can apply and the game is played on a randomly picked map which pass those filters. This will lead to a bigger variability in  custom games (even if only some use it) - Automatch will pick a random map anyways I guess.

 

Whats so cool about Random Teams?

I always liked the concept of the RT ladder in WC3 as you needed adapt alot how to play depending on your ally and got to play together with players you normally would play (because they are either too good or too bad). And if you lose you can always say it's been the fault of the ally - with an fixed Team this causes controversies, I tried it often enough.

I'd like to have a random team option in custom games as well, you could argue that the nature of custom games itself results in being teamed up with random guys, but that is only true if you play "public customs". Would be cool to play a custom with friends and mix the teams up randomly without much effort (and even in Publics there is a tendency people will try to get on the team with the best player - especially the host as he has all the power^^).

 

Whats so cool about Random Rules?

If Demigod features different game modes (like the dota game modes or things like capture the flag, King of the Olymp or Free for all) I would totally like to have a button which says "random game mode". Different game modes are fun and if you have a random button nobody can argue which mode to pick in the game lobby.

Whats so cool about Random Everything?

if I tell , you will randomly forget to breath and thats something I don't want to happen.

 

I have no clue if that is a proper blog article , never written one before.

TheAurelOne

 

 

 


Comments (Page 3)
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on Aug 01, 2008
innociv I think we can be pretty sure there will be at least 10 Demigods more likely something from 15 to 25. would be silly if you have to have one or more demigods in twice in a 5vs5 (and you don't really think they already revealed every Demigod they have, that would be like thinking there are only the 4 Different maps which were shown already.
on Aug 01, 2008
true but scathis did say it takes a very long time just to do the model, textures, particle effects, animations, and code for each demigod.
Like a month.. and they where just starting to add art for some i think.

I'd like more than 12 but i'm not that optimistic especially when GPG hasn't said anything

Would be really nice if they actually told us

Currently it's at 4 that we know of isn't it?
The Druid lady..
Torchbearer..
Rook..
Unclean Beast..
on Aug 01, 2008
Don't forget Regulus, and possibly the fat guy...
on Aug 01, 2008
and Oak
on Aug 01, 2008
Which is sort of the point..Presumably some demigods will have some minor RPS against each other. Like one demigod might have a slight advantage in a 1vs1 fight against another type, and disadvantages against others.The random creeps could even that out, or make an even greater disparity.And in such a case your team would want to gang up on such a person and keep them away from the lane that would benefit them the most, forcing them to a lane where they won't level as fast


But in 1v1s it could end up being "whoever is most compatible with that particular set of creeps, wins"... hopefully that won't happen, but it is still possible. Minor variation would be good but not so much that one Demigod gets much of an advantage.
on Aug 01, 2008
innociv I think we can be pretty sure there will be at least 10 Demigods more likely something from 15 to 25. would be silly if you have to have one or more demigods in twice in a 5vs5 (and you don't really think they already revealed every Demigod they have, that would be like thinking there are only the 4 Different maps which were shown already.


Agreed. In my head I see 5v5 as the goal. I don't believe you should have duplicate demigods in the same match, particularly in Single Player and Persistent MP. This would mean 10 heroes minimum. 20 would be nice.

For beta, all bets are off. First beta, it may be that we are going to play with only 5 to 10 Demi's initially with that # increasing as the betas are released. In fact, though no one will confirm or deny this, I suspect the main thing pushing back the beta is getting enough Demi's modeled, animated, and some semblance of balance between them. The engine, creeps, maps, and general gameplay is in place all that lacks is introducing more demi's to populate them.
on Aug 01, 2008
I never said have 100 demigods that would be way to many, I was just using that as an argument against the number of abilities being a limiting factor on having more demigods.

Personally, I would like between 40-50, and when you think about it they've allready released how many assasins? 5? which means there is technically about 10? (assuming there is an equal number of generals and assasins done at one time, which assuming they need to test generals wouldn't be too bad a guess) and the games not coming out for another 6 months? meaning since they have a lot of the buildings and basic units done they can focus more on demigods.

And also when you look at 40 demigods rember 20 are "generals" and 20 are "assasins". So 20 or 15 demigods is only about 10-7 assasins and 10-7 generals. And like I pointed out, they probably allready have 10.
on Aug 01, 2008
In a game like this, a "Random" map would not be balanced unless it was symmetrical. Even then, balance might be an issue.
on Aug 01, 2008
yes but making a random map symmetrically isn't that hard and it surely hasn't the goal to replace premade maps, neither in gameplay nor in art - but it could be a nice addition. If we get a nicely documented map file description it isn't that hard to do.
on Aug 01, 2008
I totally agree with TBO, because randomness definitely increases fun and diversity, which any game requires.
on Aug 01, 2008
If they can't have truly random maps, what about the option to pick a map at random? You can add and remove certain maps to the pool from which the game picks.
on Aug 01, 2008
thats an excellent Idea AZ.

edit: just notice I wrote that myself already weeks ago
on Aug 01, 2008
Random can be good, as long as it doesnt end up as 'whoever gets lucky with the random diceroll wins'
on Aug 01, 2008
Random maps would be possible. But only with some restrictions.

I can imagine you are able to selecet some key points. As the graphical style (for instance those waterfalls we see on some screenshots or the lava we see in the trailer), the size of the map and maybe how much struts (don´t know if this is the right word, sorry) the paths will have.
I don´t think there will be much more values you can change.
on Aug 01, 2008
But in 1v1s it could end up being "whoever is most compatible with that particular set of creeps, wins"... hopefully that won't happen, but it is still possible. Minor variation would be good but not so much that one Demigod gets much of an advantage.


Ehh.. but you don't KNOW what demigod to pick. You don't know how the creep lanes are going to be.

Wouldn't there be an advantage anyways based off what Demigod you pick ANYWAYS?..
This could tip the balanced OUT OF THE FAVOR of people who would pick the Demigod that tends to be best in 1vs1's!

Presumably some demigods will be better at crowd control, killing buildings, heal/buffs, defending, while the 1vs1 demigods you'd probably go with what ones do the most DPS.

That Demigod that does the most DPS might be a bad choice depending on how the random creeps turn out!



And it's a much better solution than completely random maps, imo.
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